im Burton, the offbeat director who has put his oddball spin on everything from Batman to Planet of the Apes, reteams with his favorite leading man, Johnny Depp, in a new movie based on Roald Dahl's classic children's story Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.
Unlike Gene Wilder's beloved 1971 version, called Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, Burton's movie has tried to remain true to Dahl's creepy book while layering in a backstory all his own, involving Wonka's dentist father, played by Christopher Lee.
Meanwhile, Depp—who has played weird characters in Burton's Edward Scissorhands, Ed Wood, Sleepy Hollow and the upcoming stop-motion-animated Corpse Bride—brings an entirely new interpretation to the reclusive candy mogul Willy Wonka in a performance that may invite unwelcome comparisons with a real-life Peter Pan.
Speaking of Peter Pan, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory also marks the reunion of Depp with his Finding Neverland co-star, 13-year-old English actor Freddie Highmore, who takes on the title role of Charlie Bucket, the small boy who wins a golden ticket and a chance to tour Wonka's top-secret candy factory.
Burton, Depp and Highmore spoke to reporters last month in Nassau, Bahamas, where Depp is currently shooting the two Pirates of the Caribbean sequels. Burton wore black; Depp wore gold teeth and Capt. Jack Sparrow's tattoo. Science Fiction Weekly was there. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory opens July 15.
Johnny Depp, you worked with Tim Burton on both Charlie and Corpse Bride at the same time, while they were both filming in London earlier this year. What was that like, and what was it like reteaming with Burton again, as you have in several previous movies?
Depp: Yeah, it was very interesting. ... We were just about to start Wonka, and Tim came to me and said, "You know, I've got this other thing that I'm thinking about doing. This stop-motion thing. And, you know, I'd like to give you the script and take a look and tell me what you think." [I said,] "Sure." So I read the script [and] felt, "God, it was amazing. It's amazing. It's brilliant." But I had no idea he was going to be doing them simultaneously. I mean, he was literally leaving the set of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and going into the Corpse Bride ... recordings and animation [sessions]. ... It was an incredible energy he has.
For me, it was like, you know, going from [assumes Willy Wonka voice] playing Willy Wonka, and then, suddenly [taking on victor's wispy English accent], you know, going in and deciding to be Victor. It was a really strange thing. Because I would literally leave the stage playing Wonka and then ... have to find this other character on the walk to the studio. Anything with Tim is always just a blast, you know? Always.
What were your inspirations for Willy Wonka?
Depp: It wasn't specifically any one or two guys that were models, so to speak, for the character. But there were memories that I have of when I was a little kid watching, like, children's shows and children's show hosts. And I distinctly remember, even at that age, thinking [that] their speech pattern and the kind of musical quality of the way they're speaking to the camera and to the children, I thought then it was really strange. Even then, I thought it was super bizarre, because it was always [assumes artificial voice]: "Hello, children. How are you?" You know? That kind of thing. So ... like, guys that I watched, Captain Kangaroo and Mr. Rogers and Uncle Al and all these guys, became the main part of the ingredient. And then also, like, game-show hosts that I remember seeing and watching and thinking, you know, "My God, they can't be like that at home, you know? They can't actually be like that." ... Which sort of led me to believe that they put on a mask, you know, ... [that] all-important, positive smile. And so that was the other side of Wonka. And then, yeah, doing stuff for the look of Wonka, ... to be able to put that costume on and click those veneers into my mouth for the teeth, which actually changed the shape of my face a little bit.
You're aware that some observers have been making a comparison between your performance and Michael Jackson. Does that perception bother you?
Depp: It doesn't bother me. I mean, everybody's entitled to think what they want, even while being violently wrong [chuckle]. No, you know, the weird thing is, that actually never occurred to me, that there would be any kind of potential connection to Michael Jackson. It never entered my mind. And I still don't understand it. I mean, I guess you can on one level [see it]: ... the makeup and children and ... [the] fantasy-land kind of thing. But, yeah, it seems weird to me, you know? I would say, if there was anyone you'd want to compare it to, it would be like a Howard Hughes, ... a reclusive ... germophobe, controlling kind of [guy].
You get to work again with Freddie Highmore in Charlie. What do you think of him?
Depp: He's pretty impressive. The first thing that struck me about Freddie when I met him on Finding Neverland was his eyes, you know? ... And not just because they're these sort of piercing, beautiful blue eyes. ... There's a purity in Freddie that is ... astonishing. It's mesmerizing. It's like he's incapable of lying, of telling a lie. He's just so pure. ... That's the first thing. And then, you know, you get to work with him, and you see what his abilities are as an actor, which are endless. He's super talented. And beyond all that, the great thing about Freddie is, yes, he's a great actor. Yes, he's a great success as a young actor. But it doesn't remotely interest him, really, you know? He wants to play football, you know? He goes on vacations with his family, and he plays ... games. He's just a really normal, very well-grounded kid.
Are there times in your life where you want to get away from the world, like Willy Wonka?
Depp: I don't want to be stuck in one spot. ... My upbringing, my childhood, was spent moving around. Like, we were total nomads. Like gypsies, just moving from one place to another all the time. And that's kind of ingrained into my psyche, into my being. So I couldn't stand being in one spot for too long a period of time. ... Essentially, we split the year out, with six months in Los Angeles, six months in France. And it just seems to work for us.
I like, very selfishly and very simply, keeping a distance from Hollywood and the sort of whatever social expectations in Hollywood, because I'm not good at it, you know? I'm really not good at that kind of game. And I find great comfort in having that distance, because I don't have the pressure or responsibility of knowing who's the top dog this week and ... who's out from last week. I don't know who anybody is, and I really like it.
Stuntman and actor Deep Roy plays all of the Oompa Loompas in Charlie. Can you talk about him?
Depp: Deep, ... he's a ball, man. He's a real force to be reckoned with, Deep Roy. We started calling him the Hardest-Working Man in Show Business. Because you'd see him, like, on a Tuesday ... and he'd be in his red Oompa Loompa outfit. And then on the Wednesday he'd be in his blue Oompa Loompa outfit. And then, Thursday, the white one. And then on Friday, he's dressed up, like, this '80s metal star. It was like, "What are you doing?" He's all over the place. He was just incredible.
Charlie adds a backstory for Willy Wonka and includes flashbacks to his childhood with Christopher Lee as his father.
Depp: The first thing I thought was it was very brave of [screenwriter] John August and Tim to make that decision and to go in that direction. And to ... keep it in the spirit of Roald Dahl's intent was no small undertaking. ... In terms of cinema, it's a great tool. It's a beautiful luxury that, as an actor, you have, because it explains a lot about the backstory, you know? Where Wonka comes from. But for an audience as well, it gives you a little bit more insight into what this guy [is about] and how he's become what he's become. So ... I was really pleased about the backstory.
You're now shooting Pirates of the Caribbean 2 and 3 in the Bahamas?
Depp: Well, yeah, we've been shooting Pirates 2 for, well, it's been a few months ... now. And we had hiatus that was planned, actually, probably it was supposed to start ... tomorrow or the next day. And we went into the hiatus a bit early, because there were bits that we were going to shoot up in Grand Bahama that sets and stuff weren't ready. But more than that, one of the ... our actors, one of our main guys, Kevin McNally, who plays Gibbs, ended up with a really nasty ear infection in both ears, and he was in England and ... was unable to get on a plane. So they just weighed out all the options and said, "We'll just break now. Go on hiatus. And when we start up again, we'll finish up the bit from 2."
When are you going to shoot with Rolling Stone guitarist Keith Richards, who plays Capt. Jack Sparrow's father? [Depp has said he modeled the character of Sparrow in the first film in part on Richards.]
Depp: I don't know exactly, you know? It looks like it's going to happen, ... but I don't know when. It's all going to depend on where we are and where he is, because he's got a little thing called the Rolling Stones tour to do.
What's the vibe like on the Pirates set?
Depp: It's weird. We didn't quite know what to expect before we went back into ... Pirates 2. A lot of things [have] happened [since the first movie]. ... Orlando's [Bloom], you know, [in] these big movies. And Keira [Knightley], you know, all this stuff. And everybody's all over the map. And so we didn't quite know what to expect. And [director] Gore [Verbinski], obviously, Gore's been working like a demon. But honestly, we stepped on the set the first day, and it was like, for me, jumping back into the skin of Captain Jack, ... it felt like we'd had a week off, you know, from the first one. And it's been a really great time, you know? Everybody's been super good and fun, and I think it's going to be good. I hope. I'll knock wood again.
Talk about working with Tim Burton again.
Depp: I know that I respect him so much and love him so much as a filmmaker. ... I would do anything he wanted. ... The thing I most enjoy about our relationship, aside from our friendship, is the amount of trust, you know? And the amount of trust that goes into that process, that collaborative process. Because one minute we're talking very, very deeply about Captain Kangaroo, and the next minute we're doing impersonations of, you know, Sammy Davis Jr. and Charles Nelson Reilly. ... So it can go anywhere, you know?
One of the things I think Tim and I share is a kind of fascination with people, with human beings, you know? The human animal. And I think we share also the idea, you know, that most people in life—most people, especially the ones that are considered, you know, super normal—if you really take a step back and observe them, watch them a bit, you'll realize that they're actually completely out of their mind, you know? Most people are really nuts. And that's fascinating to watch, you know? And I think Tim feels the same way [chuckles].
Tim Burton, this movie, like many of your films, features a main character who has father issues.
Burton: Yeah, I've got some problems, you know? You've seen me enough to realize that by now, haven't you?
From what I remember, you always saying Burbank [Calif., where Burton grew up,] was idyllic, even though they boarded you up in a room.
Burton: My parents are dead, so ... why they sealed me in [will remain with them]. I guess they just didn't want me to escape. I don't know. But no, those kinds of things in your life, ... you try to work out your issues, but then you realize those kinds of traumatic issues just stay with you forever. Somehow they just keep reoccurring. No matter how hard I try to get them out of my head, they sort of stay there.
You're working with Johnny for the fourth time now, and each time is different.
Burton: Well, Johnny and I have this sort of process where we sort of speak in the abstract to each other and yet can still understand each other. But we never like to use one reference. Like, I never say to Johnny, "Make it like this." ... We kind of like the same kinds of things, but one of the things we did talk about [is that,] in our childhood [and in] every city—and I talked to other people about this, too—there's some weird children's show host that's got a weird name, usually has kind of a funny haircut, and you'd watch him as a child, and then you'd look back on him as you got older and go, "That guy was f--king weird, man! What was that guy all about?" It's like Captain Kangaroo and Mr. Green Jeans and "Who are these people?" And each city had their own regional one that kind of spooked you out a little bit. And we were kind of using that kind of reference point, because I think that's the great thing about Dahl's writing, ... that he left that character kind of ambiguous. There's a sort of mysterious quality, nature, to that character that you know, even though we gave him a little bit of a backstory that's not in the book, but that kind of, still, the kind of weird, mysterious nature of the character felt important.
What about the inevitable comparisons with Michael Jackson, which I'm sure you've heard?
Burton: Here's the deal, OK? Big difference. Michael Jackson likes children; Willy Wonka can't stand them. To me that's a huge difference in the whole persona thing.
But were there mannerisms that were either consciously or unconsciously mimicked?
Burton: No. We never talked about that at all. Because, honestly, the truth is, I never made that connection for the very reason I just said. ... Willy Wonka really can't stand children, if you really look at it in a certain way. You know, he's got some problems. I guess you could say they both have problems, but we all have problems.
Are you concerned that's the perception?
Burton: No, because I think that says more about the people making that reference. ... Like I said, I can't think of any larger difference [between the two]. It's almost like night and day, if you look at what I'm saying about the response to somebody liking children and somebody can't stand the sight of them. To me, that's like night and day.
Dahl's book is kind of scary.
Burton: That's again what I love the book. Dahl's writing. And that's why I wanted to do it. When I first read the book as a child, he was like an adult writer for children, you know? He didn't speak down to them. And it's the kind of book where you could read it at any age and get something out of it. And he was very clever at kind of being both specific and kind of subversive and off-kilter and kind of leaving you guessing a little bit. And we did try to keep that feeling in what we were trying to do.
What about the decision to use Deep Roy to play all the Oompa Loompas?
Burton: Yeah, well, right. To me there were the three options. You either hire a cast of Oompa Loompas. Or the more modern approach would be to make them all [computer-generated]. But I've worked with Deep before, and to me he's just an Oompa Loompa. There was no question in my mind. So to have the human element and not be all CG special effects was important to this. And, also, just from my own feeling, it felt kind of Dahl-esque [and] surreal to make him be everybody. Because somehow, ... I don't know, something felt right about that. And it was also, kind of on a technical turn, it was more cost-effective than doing all special-effects shots, because we could actually use him in certain shots [with] certain lenses and camera angles, so he could interact with Johnny and the kids on occasion, so he wasn't always having to be added in later. So there were lots of reasons why that felt right to me.
You and Johnny obviously felt the need to deepen the Wonka character by adding the backstory. Would the project have been as attractive if you couldn't have made Wonka a more rounded person in that way?
Burton: Well, we sort of felt that if you have an eccentric character, ... it's fine; it works in the book. [But] we just felt in the movie, you've got a guy that's acting that strange, you kind of want to get a flavor of why he is the way he is. Otherwise he's just a weirdo. And you want to at least have a sense as to why he's acting so strangely and why he's got some problems. ... If your father were a dentist and Christopher Lee, you can see where that might cause you some traumatic experiences in your life.
You restored an episode, from the book, in which squirrels attack Veruca Salt. Do you think that will be too scary for kids?
Burton: No because, that's the thing. I go back and look at the book and look at the original thing. We're probably even lighter, in a certain way, because there's something when you read about it in a book, it almost seems more traumatic and horrible. And yet it's a children's classic. I think adults forget sometimes what it's like to be a kid. ... That's why I like the book, and I think that's why it's remained a classic. He kind of explored those kinds of edgier aspects of childhood.
Can you talk about your four other kids cast in this? [They are Annasophia Robb as Violet Beauregarde, Julia Winter as Veruca Salt, Jordon Fry as Mike Teavee and Philip Wiegratz as Augustus Gloop].
Burton: Yeah. Well you know, casting kids is harder than casting adults. ... But the good news is, ... I hadn't seen Finding Neverland, but when [Freddie] walked in the room, I just knew he was right, you know? And I was glad that I hadn't seen the other movie, because you like to have more of an instinct. And it was like that with all the kids. You see a lot of kids that could be good, and not to demean them, but it's almost like, it would be like if you were doing a television movie. These kids all had what I call a cinematic quality. When they walked in, there's just something that I said, yeah, you could see them on the big screen, and they're the more cinema version of those characters. And you know, you also have to find, although they were all good kids, there has to be a seed of what they are. I tried to find the seed of what they were, ... especially the ones that hadn't acted before. It was important that they had something of their character in them as people.
Was there ever any doubt in mind that you wanted Johnny Depp as Willy Wonka?
Burton: No, but it was the first time that I didn't have to, you know, talk anybody into it. It was like, before I could even open my mouth, the studio goes, "Well, what about Johnny Depp?" And I go, "Well, OK, if you're going to force him on me, OK."
What qualities of Johnny Depp made you think of him for this role?
Burton: Well, it's exactly because he's a character actor in a leading man's body. He's ready to do anything. He's probably more like Lon Chaney than a leading man. He wants to transform. He likes to be different characters in different movies, so you know, he's an actor that you would think about, you know, perhaps even for female roles. I don't know. He could do it all. He's very versatile that way.
What's happening with Corpse Bride [which opens Sept. 23]?
Burton: Well, we're still finishing that, but it was good, because we could only work with the kids so much during the day, so sometimes we'd work the day and then just go over to the sound booth and do some voice work on the others. I mean, it was kind of a chaotic situation, but I'm excited about that one, yeah.
Did you ever find it difficult to keep the two films separated?
Burton: No, because, again, an animation is such a slow-motion process. Sometimes it'd be only a few seconds a week to look at, so no. In fact, it was good in a certain way, because for me, I was obviously hard-core on Charlie, but Corpse Bride, because it's slower, I could have a more objective feel for [it]. So in some ways it was really good.
Can you talk about working with Danny Elfman again, especially the music for this one, where he basically had to write all new songs?
Burton: Yeah, exactly. Well, that was fun, because, you know, I used to go see Oingo Boingo [Elfman's rock band] in clubs before, as a student, never even knowing I'd be able to make movies ever. So it was kind of fun, because it did sort of remind me of going back to those sleazy clubs and hearing them play.
Has this film altered your relationship with chocolate?
Burton: Well, if you had been in the chocolate river like the last week that we were shooting, it started to smell so bad. I mean, literally, you'd open up the stage doors, and people were complaining. It kind of smells like parts of this hotel. But worse.
If this film does well enough, would you be interested in doing Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator [Dahl's own sequel to Chocolate Factory]?
Burton: No. And ... you can count on that from me.
Freddie Highmore, did you have to audition for this movie? Were you contacted?
Highmore: I went to an interview, like all the other children, and then in the end I got the part when I was in the Grand Canyon on holiday. The call came through, so it was a great way to find out.
What was your reaction?
Highmore: It was just amazing. I was thinking, "Yes! I'm going to get to work with Johnny again."
Had you seen the original movie or read the book?
Highmore: I hadn't seen the original movie before doing Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. I thought it was better to wait until afterwards so I could create my Charlie on my own. And I think the original film is good, ... but I think it's better in our one when Charlie's kept more pure and he doesn't drink a bubbly solution and laugh into the roof.
What was your favorite set?
Highmore: Um, the chocolate room was good. You know, there was a sort of 50-foot waterfall, a chocolate fall, and a pink boat down the river, and it was all overwhelming. The first time I stepped in, the thing that struck me was just the size of it.
Did you try to eat anything?
Highmore: There were quite a few edible things around. There was a marshmallow plant that was quite nice, had a sort of crème dome, and I sort of dipped a marshmallow in and ate it. That was a good one.
Is there any part of you that's in Charlie?
Highmore: I think we are similar in some ways. I mean, at the end of Finding Neverland, I was quite upset. I had a wish to see Johnny again. And Charlie has a wish to go to the factory. And both of our wishes came true, so we're both similar in that way. And also, you know, I'm just a normal kid, and Charlie is a normal kid, so, yeah.
Can you talk about how working with Johnny this time is different from working with Johnny on Neverland?
Highmore: Johnny's fantastic. He's better than chocolate. He's a really special person, and he treats everyone as equal. And I think that's a really good thing. ... Well, obviously, when we got together for the first day we already knew each other, so it was easier to get going.
Do you think this is too scary for kids that are 7 or 8 years old?
Highmore: No, I don't think it's too scary for anyone. I think it's really good, and I love the way Charlie's really innocent and ... children can see themselves in Charlie. They could think, "I could be Charlie," because Charlie isn't special. He doesn't wave a magic wand. So he's just a normal person.
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