im Burton is an exuberant, cheerful director of the surreal, as can be seen from a career that has included such offbeat films as Pee Wee's Big Adventure, Beetlejuice, Batman, Edward Scissorhands, Ed Wood and Sleepy Hollow. His fascinating worlds are a seemingly incompatible mix of gloom and whimsy which, thanks to his talent, somehow works and becomes more real than anything that passes for real in everyday life.
On Planet of the Apes, a reworking rather than a remake of the original film, Burton teams up with Mark Wahlberg (Three Kings, The Perfect Storm) and Academy Award nominees Tim Roth (Rob Roy, Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction) and Helena Bonham Carter (A Room with a View, Wings of the Dove, Fight Club) to explore new issues and aspects of "apeness."
When did you first become attracted to the project?
Burton: Actually, when they first came to me, I was sort of daunted, because I didn't know initially that they didn't want a remake--and I [would have responded] "no way," because it's such a classic, and even unlike other classics, it's a classic of its time. It's got a quality of its time. You can't recreate the surprise that it had--you can't do that.
So that was good, everyone knew that, that was great. Once I knew they didn't want a remake, I started thinking about it--the similarities, the differences, getting into ape behavior and mixing that into it. Exploring just slightly different things with it got exciting for me.
It's a lot more violent than a lot of your work. Is your creative impulse getting darker?
Burton: No, but there is a possibility that I'm somehow trying to exorcise and relieve more aggression as opposed to trying to do it in my real life. Always, though, in the movies you try to work through things to some degree.
Although, I think, you know it's the nature of this--the apes--once you do a little studying about their behavior and how strong they are and what they are and how they can flip and how close they are and how different they are, you realize that that's just part of it. That kind of wildness, that kind of elegant, graceful brutality is just part of that world.
The first film spoke a lot to race relations. Did you have a main theme, like the way we treat animals, perhaps?
Burton: Well, here again, the difference, obviously, is in the times. I can look at the late '60s and you know what the issues are of the day--they were very clearly delineated, I guess, in retrospect, but even at the time you knew the issues of the war, race, all of that was very out there at the time as major issues. The difference, then to now, to me is globalization, instant access to media. It's like the world has gotten much more fragmented. Ask anyone now what the major issues are and it might take people longer because it's not so clearly defined.
And I think the cool thing about Planet of the Apes is just as a symbol and a property--just by its nature it shows you the different side of people.
So even no matter what they're doing, it just kind of touches on issues of--all issues--race, how we treat other cultures, how we treat people, how we treat animals in relation to ourselves--the unanswerable questions of--did we come from evolution? Are we evolving? De-evolving? Darwinism vs. religious beliefs--all of these things, kind of unanswerable things, sort of are symbolized by what Planet of the Apes is, and that's the cryptic nature of it.
And did you walk away, after the whole process, with any sort of enlightenment, or any new viewpoint on culture?
Burton: Well, when you think about that time and this time, you start to think about the dangers of fragmentizing our world, because issues get grayer. Diversity is good, but when it starts to meld and people don't know what they're thinking about and stories just get more random, the world gets caught up in little things and not the big picture.
That's why I like going back to these simple, weird things that show you things in a different way, because if people looked at things from a different angle, they might not get locked into one viewpoint, which I think is dangerous to the overall world somehow.
At the close of the film, you left a lot of room to revisit the world. Is that something you think you're going to do, in a sequel?
Burton: No, I don't think that way. Although I would say this, you know, even though I honestly don't think that way--these kind of things, because the structure of Planet of the Apes is kind of circular, it kind of curves around back on itself. Even though we didn't show a lot of things, we did like to think about the overall, big picture. You just got to know that in your mind to some degree, even though you're not doing it. It just helped me for some reason.
Planet of the Apes stars Mark Wahlberg, Tim Roth, Helena Bonham Carter and Paul Giamatti talk about acting with a mouth full of someone else's teeth and with someone else's face.
I understand you all went to Ape School. What types of things did they teach you? Did you become Jane Goodall?
Carter: Yeah, I thought, "Hey, I'm Jane." I did become a sort of [laughs] amateur primatologist. I was so super-keen. I did so much homework on this. I watched every video and I really got to know [Flo, the chimpanzee matriarch] particularly and her whole family, the F family, Flo and her children. And it was fascinating, actually.
Giamatti: Well, they kind of taught every basic, behavioral thing that they could think of. You had to learn how to walk and talk and run and go up stairs and down stairs and you had to learn how to manipulate things with your hands. And they were very concerned with things like smelling and tasting and exfoliating and doing all the grooming and stuff like that. It was these five, six guys that were stuntmen, most of them were English, but these guys specialized in ape movement.
Wahlberg: There was no "Slave School" [laughs], there was no slave school. But I did a lot of homework, you know, figuring out some of the stuff that pilots have to go through and trying to figure out how to learn how to fly the ship. Tim wanted me to put on a little weight, get into decent shape.
When the film wrapped, did you find yourself still using the ape behaviors?
Carter: Well, when I got home, nothing fit. From walking around in a semi-squat my quadriceps had bulged out. It was hideous. Luckily they've gone down. They're still pretty muscle-y. But there were a lot of useful things that I wish I had kept from Ape School, things that I wish as humans we did develop and use, like our sense of smell and our taste and our tactility and our ability to really, fully look at someone. [Apes] carry their souls around with them and they're much less self-conscious and they have a focus.
Giamatti: Yeah, I did find myself trying to pick everything up in the right way
and smell everything and do all that kind of stuff.
You had facial prosthetics and dental prosthetics. Did you find these a handicap or an enhancement to your performances?
Roth: They really help you. The teeth are kind of difficult because it's very hard to articulate, but you can do your best and then revoice. The makeup itself and the costume actually help you do the acting, it helps you do the job. Once it's on, it's actually quite easy to maintain.
Giamatti: They were a handicap at first. I mean, the teeth especially were really hard to talk with, and the prosthetics, when you had them in, it was all a hindrance and an obstacle to being able to act. But you practiced with the teeth and got used to that, and eventually it became pleasurable and it made things easier. Once you stopped fighting and you felt you were not competing with it anymore, you realized you didn't have to work as much and it was going to do a lot of the work for you.
Carter: I love the idea of prosthetics. I had done a bit of prosthetics--in Frankenstein I was a bit of a monster at the end--but I had never done a whole part under a mask. I loved the idea that I could be free of my face and inhabit somebody else's. It did present a challenge, to somehow make this part work and be a chimpanzee and not be completely ridiculous. We were taught at Ape School to find our "inner ape," and the inner ape was this focus, this ability to be 150,000% present in the moment and be fully alive and not be distracted or thinking about something in the past or the future.
Those costumes really looked real. Did you ever lose track of the fact that there were humans inside and think, "Hey! I'm talking to apes!"
Roth: No, not really, I never did, because once you've been through that process of putting that stuff on and being with it for such a long time, you're always aware of it. I was constantly impressed by the makeup, though. It never really bored me looking at them. You get more tired of your own makeup than you do of other people's. I always had my favorites and stuff.
Wahlberg: Yes and no. I did with Tim (Roth) and Michael (Clarke Duncan), especially because they were extremely violent, like the chimps I was working with in preparing for the movie. They were relentless, they were always in character, which was fantastic for me because I need something to cling to, to believe myself so that way I can convey that to the audience. Yeah, there were a lot of times. Those guys in particular.
I understand that the chimpanzees you worked with were violent.
Wahlberg: They became violent. They were protective of me at first, they were very close, very affectionate. And then they met Helena and they, like, turned bad. I gave her a hug one day, saying "hi," and they attacked me.
Was Leo sexually attracted to Ari?
Wahlberg: [smiles] Very much so, yeah. It took a while for him to come around, but yeah.
Thade is definitely the villain of the piece, he's 100% bad guy. Does he have any qualities that make him redeemable, or is he totally evil?
Roth: That's interesting, I haven't thought about that [laughs]. I think he could have have, but I think he's losing it through the film and by the end, it's over. Maybe the only redeemable thing about fascism is its inherent stupidity.
What was the weirdest or funniest thing you saw on the set?
Roth: I think the whole thing is funny. We would step back occasionally, me and Paul [Giamatti] and just laugh ourselves silly because it truly is absurd.
Giamatti: It was a constantly weird thing. You know, the weirdest thing I saw was the real chimpanzee which we got to interact with, and people thought it was really cute, and I actually thought he was kinda creepy and weird and intense. And they latch on to you and they won't let go and they're very strong and they have very human eyes, so they're actually kind of creepy and uncanny creatures.
Wahlberg: The coolest thing about the experience was meeting Tim [Burton] the person, getting to know a fantastic human being. It was a really tough shoot for me physically; I was getting beaten up for most of the movie. I still rushed to work every day just to hang out with Tim. I never had so much fun, felt so comfortable on a set or around somebody. It was really, really special.
Did you leave the film with any new insights about the way we interact with other cultures or how we treat animals?
Wahlberg: Ah yes, definitely. You can't help but think. It definitely raises your awareness and conscious level. I can't wait to see it again because I know there are things that I missed from seeing it the first time just because I was blown away. Tim really did an amazing job. I felt like I had never even been there. I could recognize myself but I really felt like I was so detached from it, it was bizarre.
Does science fiction as a genre interest you?
Wahlberg: It terrified me before. I vowed never to do anything sci-fi because, you know, I was always doing something very much reality-based and something that I could connect with on some sort of level. But now, with working with Tim, it certainly sparked my interest a bit, but it would
depend who it was with.
Roth: I like science fiction, very much, but it is Tim Burton that has the special appeal for me. I haven't been offered any [more science fiction] projects, but I'd be interested if it was something classic.
Giamatti: I'm actually kinda a big science-fiction fan. I like to read a lot of
science fiction. I'm a big fan of a lot of the Star Trek things.
At the end of the film, there was a lot of room for you and Tim to revisit the world. Is that something you'd want to do again?
Wahlberg: If Tim wants to, I'd love to--it really depends on him.
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