ith two DVD sets coming out, a movie in the works and a possible return to series television, the future of Red Dwarf has never looked brighter. No one is more surprised by the turn of events than Doug Naylor (far left), who along with Rob Grant created and produced the show under Grant Naylor Productions. Two Red Dwarf DVD sets were released by BBC Video on Feb. 25.
It's been an incredible journey for the little BBC science-fiction comedy, about a chicken-soup machine repairman named Dave Lister who ends up 3 million years in the future on a mining vessel named Red Dwarf with a bizarre cast of characters, including an evolved cat, a hologram and the ship's AI. Red Dwarf won the International Emmy in the Popular Arts Category and the British Comedy Award for Best BBC Sitcom for Series (or Season) VI and went on to become the highest-rated show on the BBC2 while it was running.
Naylor began his career as a contract writer for BBC Radio. He moved on to television in 1980 and became one of the head writers and producers of Spitting Image, a satirical puppet series and one of the most popular shows in the history of British television.
Since Red Dwarf's launch in 1988, Naylor wrote or co-wrote all 52 episodes and directed many of the episodes. He and Grant wrote the first two Red Dwarf books, Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers and Better Than Life. Since then, Naylor has gone on to write the internationally
bestselling novel Last Human.
Naylor chatted with Science Fiction Weekly about humble beginnings, the possibility of doing a movie and the color gray.
Red Dwarf has had an amazing journey for a little sci-fi comedy with humble beginnings.
Naylor: Yes, very humble beginnings. I never expected the beginnings to look so humble, to be honest [laughs]. I was assured it would look fabulous and that the production values would be amazing. And then I was very, very shocked when I saw what it looked like in the early series. I think since then it's been a struggle, but we've tried to get more money and tried to do it better. And because of its success we've been able to do that, and now hopefully we're going to be in a position where we can make a movie.
Before we talk about a Red Dwarf movie, tell us what fans have to look forward to with this new DVD?
Naylor: There are just tons and tons of extras on it. There's a really funny cast commentary. Really quite interesting and frank accounts of their rivalry, insecurity, their bad living, the general completely unprofessional attitude to those early series, which is very funny. There's a whole documentary on the launching of Red Dwarf. How lucky it was to get commissioned. How it was originally rejected by the BBC three times. They sent it right back and said they didn't want to do it. They hated it. They didn't get it. They didn't think science fiction was ever going to be successful on television. They didn't think there was a market on science fiction. Dr. Who is a one-off. We said, "What about Star Wars?" And they said, "Oh, our American cousins across the pond?"
It was so patronizing. It was sort of like "Yes, God knows why that was a success." They were so completely out of touch with everything that was going on at the time. This was the mid-1980s. They weren't aware of stuff like Terminator and all the science-fiction movies. Never mind Star Wars and all that. So they rejected it three times, and then it was just pure luck that another part of the BBC, based in Manchester, was looking for something kind of different, because they had the ability to commission one comedy series. So they commissioned it because they thought it was weird. They wanted something weird. And once they were able to get on, it was then down to what the audience thought, and because the audience liked it we survived.
This show has really had a lot of evolutions.
Naylor: Oh, sure. Absolutely. That's one of the big things about it. We nearly always change every season. We change the format in some way. Make it different than all the others. So the fans never really know quite what they're getting. Sometimes they're pleased and sometimes they go, "Oh, it was better before." But we just keep changing it, and I think that's a good thing.
The DVD sets are for the first two seasons. Are we going to seem more Red Dwarf on DVD?
Naylor: Yeah, we're just preparing seasons three and four right now, and so it's basically going to spin out from one through eight. I think the release pattern is one DVD released in November and then February. And then November and February, something like that. It's two a year.
Certainly the reaction to the DVD in the U.K. and Australia has been absolutely terrific. I mean, people have really enjoyed it. And I think the guys have done a great job on it with their commentaries. As I say, there's documentaries and there's outtakes. There's a real kind of insight into how that first series came about. I think a lot of it will surprise a lot of the fans, 'cause it's new material. It's certainly been enjoyed as well as, obviously, the original series in all its raw glory.
Is the movie going to pick up where the series left off?
Naylor: The movie is going to be a complete separate entity, and so you won't have to have any previous knowledge of the series. It's a complete movie unto itself. I can't say too much about the movie right now, although the script has been written.
Did you write the script?
Naylor: Yeah, I did. Yeah.
It sounds as if you're trying to bring new people to the universe of Red Dwarf with the movie, as well as appeal to the fans of the series?
Naylor: We've been encouraged, really. We have a Web site, and something like 50 percent of the hits are off of America. So we know there's a good following there. And also, ironically, 13 percent of the hits are from Germany, and it's not even on in Germany [laughs]. It's so strange.
There are only two places in Europe where it's not on. One is Germany, and I think the other one is Austria. And you get all these hits on the Web site. It's so weird.
And so Red Dwarf is popular in places it's not even shown. That's amazing.
Naylor: Yeah, that is amazing, isn't it? It's not even shown. Maybe if it was shown, they'd hate it [laughs]. I don't know.
Which actors will be back for the movie?
Naylor: All the cast. All the main guys and girls. They're all lined up ready to go and we're just been waiting for Chris Barrie to finish on Tomb Raider 2, which he does in a few months. And then, if everything working out, which I'm sure it will, we'll be shooting this summer.
I'm also hearing rumblings of a ninth season somewhere along the way.
Naylor: Yeah, that's possible, but I really want to get the movie—to do the movie first, and then we'll see where we are. I would love to do a series of movies.
Is the movie going to be a big release?
Naylor: I hope so.
My guess is there may be more money spent on the movie than the whole series.
Naylor: Well, hey, that wouldn't be hard, though.
Are we going to see some cool special effects on the film?
Naylor: That's the intention.
As a writer, are you ever going to run out of stories and ideas for this series and these characters?
Naylor: It's such fun to do, and we all get together and have such a great time. I mean, I remember reading a review, and they said, "None of the cast should be paid, because they are clearly having so much fun." I tried actually talking to the cast. They weren't quite as enthusiastic about not being paid as the writer of the article suggested [laughs]. I mean, it is kind of true, 'cause we have just such good fun. We want to get together and make more, and that's a great motivating factor to write the scripts, because it's just such a gas doing it. And because of the very nature of the idea, there's no way you can't go with it. It's a huge base to go off from.
It just seems like you reinvent the show at certain points. Is it a benefit having a short six- or eight-episode season, as opposed to the American TV shows, which have 22 episodes?
Naylor: In a way, though, it could be easier [doing 22 episodes], because then you would have to get another guy, they would have to pay you decent money. It's not that we wouldn't be happy to do 22, it's them [laughs].
Red Dwarf has really taken on a life of its own. What's special about the series for you?
Naylor: That's really hard to define. I was just talking to someone yesterday, and they were saying it's just really taken off in Japan. They've just released DVDs in Japan, and they all disappeared in a week, sold just tons in a week. So there is something archetypal about the characters that people can relate to no matter what kind of country and culture they come from. I think that's the basis, you know Lister/Rimmer, that kind of relationship. People are able to relate to that.
Who couldn't relate to a chicken-soup machine repairman who's put into suspended animation for 3 million years?
Naylor: He's a nobody who becomes important.
What's been the biggest challenge for you with Red Dwarf?
Naylor: The biggest challenge is trying to come up with fresh stories and not repeating ourselves. The long-term goal has always been to make a movie. And hopefully that's going to happen now. We'll have a little more money and will be able to do something that looks like a proper cool movie. It would be great to do that.
So right from the beginning you wanted to do a movie?
Naylor: Well, funny enough, before the series was commissioned, we were actually asked by a film company if we would sell them the script so they could make it into a movie. Film on Four was a British company that was connected to our fourth channel over here, and they did quite a lot of movies. They're no longer a business now. They closed down last year. But they wanted to do the movie of it, and we said no. We really felt it was a TV series. But it was always in the back of our minds that at some point it would be great to do a movie.
And now it's going to be a movie.
Naylor: Now it's definitely looking pretty good that it's going to be a movie.
Kind of circular pattern here.
Naylor: That's right.
What has surprised you most about Red Dwarf through the years?
Naylor: I think it's the fact that it's seems to have worked in so many different countries. Because when you write something, you never write for it to be successful. You just write something that kind of amuses you or you think is kind of cool. Or rather that's what we did. Actually, to be fair, I thought it would be a much bigger success than it was in the beginning. But I expected it to look much better than it did. And so it was a horrible surprise to see how gray all the sets were and how just generally awful it looked. I'm sure lots of people just looked at it and turned straight to the next channel [laughs]. But then word of mouth brought people back to it.
Generally, with the BBC, they will repeat a new series almost immediately, six to eight weeks later. We asked them not to repeat season one, because we wanted to do season two. We actually stopped season one from being repeated for years. It's the only way to get really established, because we hated the look of it so much. Yeah, we really thought it would put people off. And then, of course, when it finally went on, lots of people wanted to see it and to buy the videos, because it hadn't been around. That kind of created a cult, although that wasn't the reason we were asking them not to repeat it.
It must have been an unhappy time when you saw the first few episodes and were disappointed in them.
Naylor: Yeah, it was very frustrating. It was such an amateurish situation, because the BBC rejected the script three times. It was finally commissioned, and then there was an electricians' strike. So we rehearsed all the shows, but were never able to film them. Finally, it was filmed, and the sets were just awful, even though they had all this preparation time. Yes, there wasn't a huge budget, but even so.
Having said that, the BBC does have a fearful reputation for producing, certainly at the time, absolutely dreadful science-fiction shows. We get repeated now on some of satellite channels, and my wife and I watch it just because it's just jaw-droppingly bad. It's kind of like a detergent bottle painted silver as a space ship. It's just so bad, and you think, "How is this stuff allowed?" [Laughs.] And it's basically because talented people just were not given enough money to produce a proper product, because they felt science fiction was not worthy.
It must have been a surprise to them then when you guys started doing really well.
Naylor: Sure. Then everyone wanted a piece of it, and went, "Oh, yeah, we've commissioned this. This is ours." Yeah.
Suddenly they're proud.
Naylor: Oh, yeah, "Great. I've always been a huge science-fiction fan."
And to have it work in so many countries.
Naylor: I think also, though, the advantage of science fiction is that, for the most part, you're not dealing with contemporary targets. And so it doesn't date as quickly sometimes as some contemporary stuff or rely on a particular culture's contemporary references. So it has a better chance of traveling, because it's more generic.
Did you imagine in the beginning that you'd be looking back at eight seasons and you'd be looking forward to a movie and maybe a ninth season?
Naylor: No. No. Never. Absolutely not.
In the beginning, what were you hoping for with Red Dwarf?
Naylor: I expected it to do three seasons and for it to explode. Have a glorious, but brief life. And interestingly, a red dwarf star is an extremely dull but long-lasting star. And that's also reflected in the series, where it just keeps plodding along with a huge, long life. So there is some kind of comparison there, I think [laughs].
Why did the series stop after eight seasons?
Naylor: It stopped because we wanted to do the movie, and various kinds of things have prevented it being made. One, we had the money three times and then the money dropped out. We went into production once and then the money fell out. And then we had Chris Barrie being signed up by Tomb Raider [2] and him not available. And so it's just getting all those things. And then the budget had to be reduced a little, and the script had to be rewritten. So it's just been a series of reasons why it was not shot sooner.
Getting the movie made seems a little like getting the series made.
Naylor: Actually, I would say it's even harder [laughs]. Quite honestly, it's taken longer. It's going to be good, though.
And maybe you'll see on the big screen the Red Dwarf you always imagined.
Naylor: Well, yeah. That's the plan. That's the intention. Very much so, yeah.
As one of the creators of the series, when you look back, are you surprised by the evolution of the characters and the stories you've been able to tell?
Naylor: You hear a lot about some creators, and they go, "Oh, yes. We had a nine-year plan for this." And I don't believe them. I don't believe them because I don't think you have a nine [year] idea when you sit down where each of the [seasons] is plotted out. I think you know basically where you are right now, and basically what happened before it started, and a vague idea of where it might go in the future, but you're not absolutely sure. And that was certainly the case with Red Dwarf.
I mean, people read the first pilot, and we killed off all the crew, and we had the last human, a hologram resurrected and a cat. People read it, and they read, "Yeah, well, what happens now?" We went, "Well, actually we don't know. We just have adventures, we guess." They said, "But what, with just those guys? There's no one around." And we went, "Yeah, but they can meet people or something." Having said that, we didn't want to do the Star Trek thing of either monster-of-the-week or landing on a planet each week. We wanted for it to be more about the loneliness of deep space and for it to be more character-driven. That was certainly the idea in the early days.
And especially, I imagine, with the constraints of the special effects.
Naylor: Yeah, you bet. We would be too terrified, too [laughs].
You've also written Red Dwarf books. So this story and these people must live with you.
Naylor: Yes. The very first book we did was Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers. And the feel of that is what we hoped it would be. It's much bigger and grander than that first series.
As one of the fathers of the show, when you look at the DVD, at those original episodes now, do you look at it fondly or do you still cringe?
Naylor: I still rant when I seem some of those sets, when I see how raw some of it is. I always had a constant battle with the production designer, because everything he did was gray. And I used to say to him—and it was gray wood, it wasn't like it was interesting gray, it was just gray. And we used to make jokes that he bought a whole factory of gray paints and he just had to get rid of it. I said, "Can you put some other stuff in? There doesn't seem to be any set dressing. It's just gray."
And so then he put some flowers in, some futuristic flowers that were the color gray. They were gray, too. I thought, this is surreal, like something out of Kafka. And then I said, "Can you please put some color somehow. Can we have some color, because it's all gray?" One of shows, I think it's the second or third show, there is just a pack of tapes which were all different colors, like blue, green, red or yellow. That was like, "There, put those in and that will sort out Doug's gray problem." [Laughs.] It was the only thing on the set that had color. It was so extraordinary.
Is anything else coming up for you?
Naylor: As I was saying, we're doing the movie. And then outside that, I'm hopefully doing another movie.
Are you hoping for a couple Red Dwarf movies?
Naylor: Oh, yeah, sure. There is another movie that is written that we're taking to people about right now. So, hopefully.
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